August 12, 2003
Canon EOS 10D "Prosumer" camera experiences?

After the exceptionally good response and advice I got when I was looking for noise cancelling headphones, I dare post another request to you, honoured reader:

I'm looking for experiences and arguments for and against buying the Canon EOS 10D (no need to remind me that it costs the same as a decent, well-used car...).

I've been playing with my current digital IXUS for about 3 years now and I'm looking for options for adding a more sophisticated camera to my increasingly heavy hand baggage when travelling.

What I'd like to have is

  • SLR capabilities: changing lenses, manual tweaking of settings to a larger degree than what can be achieved with the compact cameras.
  • Digital: If you've had the possibility to instantly see your photos after shooting you never want to go back to film and its associated wait for the development
  • Decent Megapixelage: I currently am fine with my 2.1 megapixels but I wouldn't mind doubling or more for future proofing my purchase (good print outs + potentially using images for other purposes later)
Some reviews and product descriptions I've found so far include:If I do go shopping, a fast Compact Flash card (512Mb? 1Gb?) and a decent lens would be in order. Advice will be taken; I've seen the EF 28-135MM F3.5-5.6 USM IS Auto and it looks particularly nice, with image stabilization and the works... Is it worth the $?

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The 10D seems to be a great camera, and for the money you probably won't get anything better. Here are a few photologs where the shooters use a 10D

http://meccapixel.com/

http://exposur3.com/

The results are outstanding, but it also depends on what lens you buy with it. Canon makes some great lenses, and some so-so lenses. Peruse Photography Review ( http://photographyreview.com/Lenses/PSC_3787crx.aspx ) for some good user reviews of lenses.

Posted by: Bill on August 12, 2003 07:22 PM

Damn you Anders, are you going to get the 10D before me? Blarrgh ;-)

Seriously though, it seems like a very nice camera. I have been looking at different objectives myself, remember that the 28-135 is more like a 35-200MM lens on the 10D.

One tip for lens: Buy a 50MM lens, they are easy to manufacture and cheap, and usually give good value for money. Not an all-round lens maybe, but one that could prove to be nice to have in many circumstances.

Well, back to saving up my bucks to buy a Canon 10D. :-)

Posted by: Jarle on August 13, 2003 01:38 AM

I'm no expert by any means, but I actually got to hold a 10D a week or two ago and I had one thought. "Oh god it's huge."

I had been lusting after one for similar reasons as you (SLR, lenses, etc), but it was far bigger than my existing film SLR. Like, hugely bigger.

I did talk to a pentax rep and apparently in the next while (or now) they have a new one in their "ist" series (I think) that is built on the same body as the "ist" (which is a normal SLR size) except for a smaller bump on the back. It will also accept all the standard pentax lenses (not sure if the 10D accepts all the canon lenses... I'd hope so).

Oh, and the price (~$2600 CND) is with a lense, whereas the 10D is only for the body.

My $0.02 from someone who was lusting after a 10D is to look at the pentax line (couldn't find anything online for you sadly, maybe talk to someone in your local camera store?), or maybe there are others out there.

My main advice would be to actually get a hold of a 10D and see what you feel. I found it too big. You might not, you never know. Don't rush this though, I know I've had to stop myself a couple of times from just going out and getting one (or something).

Posted by: Arcterex on August 13, 2003 05:08 AM

Another thing would be to remind you (as I have myself many times) that it's not the camera that makes the picture :) Repeat after me: "Getting a better camera will not make me a better photographer, no matter how much I want new toys" :)

Posted by: Arcterex on August 13, 2003 05:09 AM

Thanks. :-D

Objectives and a good camera is a good start, no doubt. But you need to "know" or have a "feel" for compositions and also teqnique to make good photos, no doubt.

Posted by: Jarle on August 13, 2003 03:24 PM

If you have money to burn you may look at investing in a real life film camera and a decent set of lenses (which can be used if/when you get an SLR digital). You probably get more skillz from a film SLR because you don't get the advantages of a digital. Course, a good one is something like $399CND (rebel 2000-type) vs the same in digital ($2800 CND :)

Course, if you do get a digital I want to try it out too!

Posted by: Arcterex on August 13, 2003 04:57 PM

All, thanks for your comments and advice:

Jarle: you got me started by tipping me about the camera's existence ;-)

Arcterex: I did like you suggested; checked it out in my local Dixon's shop today (a lot of shops are sold out & have wait-lists for this camera now!) Together with the 28-135mm lens it is indeed a bit heavy and on the bulky side, but the lens is fast and it feels ok to hold the ensemble... I know a good camera doesn't == a good photographer, but one can hope and aspire, can't one? ;-)

Now I'm looking for some good prices (preferably in UK, alternatively in France / US)...

Dixon's UK has the camera (no lens) for about 1250 pounds. US prices seem much lower ( http://www.ibuydigital.com has it at US$ 1327 = under 900 pounds!)

Posted by: Anders on August 13, 2003 06:36 PM

actually, i shoot with a sony dsc-f707 (5mp) but wish that i had a 10d :)

Posted by: chrys on August 14, 2003 01:12 PM

Being a Nikon head myself I'll have to also point out the existance of the D100. :-) (and the D1x and soon D2h etc etc of course; but those are a bit pricier).


- ask

Posted by: Ask Bjørn Hansen on August 14, 2003 06:20 PM

Ask, thanks for your advice. I've had a look at the Nikon too. However, I'm sticking with Canon for a number of reasons:

I already have the original digital IXUS (cost a fortune when it came out; smallest 2 Megapixel camera in the world at the time) and I'm familiar with their UI, software etc.

Second, the price is really pushing the upper limits of what I'm interested in paying for what is essentially a toy/another gadget for entirely non-professional use...

Thanks for all the advice! The jury's still out, but might deliver a verdict soonish!

Posted by: Anders on August 14, 2003 06:42 PM

I've owned a 10D for a few months now and so far I'm very happy with it. Being a real SLR of course means it's bigger than normal digital cameras and also a bit bigger than my EOS 50 film camera, but only big enough to make it feel comfortable when holding the camera.
When using a large lens (like my 70-200/2.8) the batterigrib is very nice, but adds further to the size of the camera.

The camera is very fast and performs really good at high ISO settings, compared to my Canon G2, and the user interface is very intuitive, especially when you already own another Canon digital camera.
The speed of operation and the lownoise CCD ship was my main reason for bying the camera. I shoot a lot of concerts and the 400 ISO setting on my G2 was too noisy.

The EF 28-135MM F3.5-5.6 USM IS is a nice alround lens especially for outdoor shooting. Depending on what kind of pictures you take a very fast lens (like the 50 mm/1.4) or a wide zoom is a good supplement.

The only downside with the 10D is the size - you think twice before taking the camera with you. Of course, since you already own a small digital, just bring that when in doubt :)

Posted by: Jan Chrillesen on August 16, 2003 04:00 PM

Well i was in exactly the same situation as you.

had a digital ixus for about 3 years which i really enjoyed but traded up to the 10D when i was visiting Vancouver in july.

it's really a superb bit of kit. it works well with all my lenses, the print quality is phenomenal and i just love it.

plus it may be big but i still like to walk around with it and i've kept the little ixus for all other occassions.

splendid.

Posted by: Simon Hepworth on September 8, 2003 06:09 PM

See http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/

The Canon EOS 300D might fit your needs cheaper...

Posted by: Steve M on September 10, 2003 11:45 PM

Hi
I found your site whilst I was searching for info on the Canon EOS 10D. I search for info on this camera most nights, I don't know why I do this because I get more and more depressed every time I read the glowing tributes to the 10D.
I ordered a 10D & 28-135MM lens from Jessops in Scarborough 5 weeks ago, They now tell me it will be another 3 weeks wait. I could have walked to Japan and back to get one in that time.
What makes matters even worse is that I met a chap who walked into Jessops at York off the street and bought one over the counter. When I questioned this at my local store they just shrugged their collective shoulders and said it must have been one that was ordered and cancelled. You would think that Jessops would have a computer database of people waiting so they could come first. I could have gone and collected the thing myself as York is only 40 miles from Scarborough.
Anybody else out there having the same problems ?

Posted by: Cliff Miller on October 4, 2003 11:12 PM

I'm seriously looking into a 10D (hence I found this page). I've currently got a EOS-30, which is the equivalent in film. It's a great camera, so I'm thinking that the 10D would be a good second body.

Also since I got my 28-135 IS lens, it's almost never left my camera. It's a very nice piece of kit. The IS has been very useful for shooting non-flash indoors, and in poor light. Worth the money.

Posted by: Justin on October 6, 2003 06:21 PM

Anders,
In terms of picture quality, there's not much to choose between the 10D and the 300D - the imaging sensor & DIGIC processing is almost identical.

the 300D is considerably lighter, and smaller - if you've small hands, you might find the 300D easier.

FWIW, I'm going thro the same decision process, and am also looking for good 10D prices: try camera-x-change.co.uk, they currently have the 300 (~830 with lens) , and a 7 day wait for the 10D. (~1150 b/o).

I'm leaning towards the 10D as:
- I like the control layout, esp the wheel on the back
- it is more fully adjustable (some of the 300D functions are crippled/conjoined, e.g. white balance setting, Servo/AI focus - but read the material on dpreview for full details). however, these are subtle differences, ask yourself if they're worth the price difference for the sort of photography YOU do.

- metal body.

I've had an Eos 100 for years, and have several consumer grade lenses.


As for storage: received wisdom says go with CF cards, and if you're shooting RAW images (6Mb), you might want 1Gb straight off. Me, I'll get two 512 Cards to start.

Lenses: I've had a 28-70 (sigma), and a 75-300 USM (Canon) on my 100 for ages.... I'd probably go for the 75-300 IS (stabilised) if buying new now.... and they do a nice 300mm L IS lens too (pro level, L). I shoot a lot of 'distant action' (wildlife, action sports), and have a 600mm CAT sigma lens.
remember the 1.6x magnification factor: if you do a lot of portraits/indoor scenes, you'll need an (expensive) wideangle lens, to get 28mm digital you need a 17mm film lens!

I'm hoping to try out both cameras this w'end, in London - just gotta pick a store first!

Posted by: hamilton on October 15, 2003 12:49 PM
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